John Shirley
screenwriter & fiction writer

Moderator2: Tommy, can you HEAR me???

Moderator2: John - you should be able to type. Can you???

JohnShirl: I can type -

JohnShirl: oh okay, i'm there now?

Moderator2: Vunderbar!!

Moderator2: Ladies and gentlemen - showtime!

Moderator2: Hi everyone - welcome to scifi.com where we've had quite the cyberchat fest today, thanks to DragonCon. Thanks for joining us here tonight.

Moderator2: We're switching gears to talk to screenwriter & fiction writer John Shirley.

JohnShirl: I've got a lot of friends at Dragoncon...I went last year...

Moderator2: John Shirley - screenwriter of The Crow, rock 'n' roll lyricist and Godfather of Cyberpunk - has a new collection of short stories, Black Butterflies described by their author as "deep-crime and nightmarish suspense and horror stories of a rather harrowingly extreme variety."

Moderator2: But what else would you expect from Shirley? In addition to his fiction, Shirley's TV-writing credits include Primal Scream, episodes of Star Trek: Deep Space 9, Poltergeist, and Profit.

Moderator2: Brief word about the drill - you can ask John Shirley questions by sending those questions to me as private sends.

Moderator2: John - welcome and thanks for joining us here tonight. Do you hang out online much?

JohnShirl: no - it's depressing, don't you read the studies?

Moderator2: I'm too busy crying...

JohnShirl: but everymorning I check email and I am disappointed if I don't get any. I go to the John Shirley message board and check out the rats

JohnShirl: rants

JohnShirl: rats too

JohnShirl: and usually get into an argument about pollitics

Moderator2: Is that the board on DarkEcho?

JohnShirl: or religion

JohnShirl: no it's Masters of Terror

JohnShirl: it's accessible through my website (which actually some fans put up not me but of course I approve)

Moderator2: Ah! So don't be shy, peoples - I know you have questions for John! Just send them to me in private messages...

JohnShirl: www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley.html...or through masters of terror

Moderator2: John, tell us a little about Black Butterflies.

JohnShirl: well probably the Battlestar Galactica People are going to watch videos and finger old glossies of Lorne green

JohnShirl: Black Butterflies

JohnShirl: The publisher says it's "the dark side of the dark side

JohnShirl: and I sort of like that conceit

JohnShirl: it is, anyway, an attempt to tell stories that wouldn't otherwise get told, somehow...

JohnShirl: it's divided into two parts, This World, stories that have no supernatural element, it could all happen (and some of it even did)

JohnShirl: and That World which is stories of Supernatural Surrealism...

JohnShirl: my new buzzword

JohnShirl: The same publisher, Mark v Ziesing, did my last novel SILICON EMBRACE

JohnShirl: In the Spring Leisure books will bring out my novel WETBONES in mass market - it was also in a Ziesing edition

JohnShirl: and what else do you want to know - Black Butterflies is very street oriented somehow...//

Moderator2: That's cool - we have a ton of other questions. Want some?

JohnShirl: yes use a large shovel//

Moderator2: ...<LordSphere> : do you enjoy writing ?

JohnShirl: Twenty years ago I'd have thought that was a silly question - but I don't now

JohnShirl: as writing can be very very difficult and not just creatively, but as a life.

JohnShirl: And to survive one has to constantly try to expand the natural borders of one's writing...to write things, often, one wouldn't write...especially when one has to service (financially) two ex wives...

JohnShirl: It can be agonizing in several ways - one's ego is always set up to be knocked down...even someone like Normal Mailer takes a lot of crap, I've noticed...

JohnShirl: The actual act of writing is enjoyable when I'm writing something that flows.

JohnShirl: If it comes naturally. If I have to clutch and scrape and claw for it and so forth then it's painful.

JohnShirl: The best stuff sort of flows -though not everyone will agree on what came out best.

JohnShirl: It can be hellish but it's better than REAL WORK.//

Moderator2: ...<Eleven>: John, where do u get ur inspirations? was it a macabre childhood, bad dreams? or are u just lucky?

JohnShirl: I get them from you - I have a tape recorder set up under your bed.

JohnShirl: You mutter the most awful things at night.

JohnShirl: But aside from that, uh, it's probably from being DAMAGED in some way by life.

JohnShirl: In my case.

JohnShirl: But also I just feel driven to express something that's got hold of me. It just sort of descends on me and won't let go.

JohnShirl: Then again I observe people and I've been in some pretty extreme places...

JohnShirl: And extreme places make the stories that are there, always, in anyone's life, the dramas that are usually hidden, come out, flash into view.

JohnShirl: That's why there are so many war stories. So many stories available for soap opera writers, say - they come from extreme conflicts...they exaggerate, of course, but it's the same principle...//

Moderator2: ...<Scott>: John, have you seen a Bauhaus show recently?

JohnShirl: Don't torture me.

JohnShirl: I wanted to go - and found out they'd played here the day before I learned of their even touring

JohnShirl: ....I do have Bauhaus lps...

JohnShirl: They're a great band, very defining.

JohnShirl: Like the velvet Underground, the Stooges, the original Alice Cooper band, they made so much else

JohnShirl: possible...//

Moderator2: Station identification time - we're chatting with horror writer/screenwriter John Shirley. Wanna ask him a question? Justsend the question to me as a private send and I'll post it.

Moderator2: ...<cdwrites> : How long have you been writing, and who do you like to read?

JohnShirl: I have been writing since I was like 12...

JohnShirl: See I published a jr high school underground newspaper in mimeograph...

JohnShirl: It was called The Sniper beause the school paper was called the Piper...I got in trouble...that was in the sixties..I published in various underground newspapers and such till I was 19 and then began publishign professioally...

JohnShirl: I wrote my first novel at 18 and it was published a few years later...

JohnShirl: I like to read history, biographies, philosophy - nonfiction.

JohnShirl: If I'm reading fiction for entertainment it's very limited...Jack Vance, Patrick O'Brian (current fave),

JohnShirl: a couple of detective guys....Parker, Elmore Leonard...

JohnShirl: Very little horror or science fiction anymore/..

Moderator2: ...<Hellrazor>: Do you know who Fredrik Brown is and if so do you know where I could find more of his works, both of you being sci-fi writers and all?

JohnShirl: I read a lot of F Brown as a boy

Moderator2: Hold on everybody -

Moderator2: John is logging on himself and he seems to have lost his connection.

Moderator2: But I am hopeful that he will log right back on.

Moderator2: Let's all sit glued to our screens and think dark thoughts while he logs back on...

Moderator2: I'm going to let you talk till he comes back on.

* (Fifteen minutes pass as Mr. Shirley reboots) *

Moderator2: John - can you type???

JohnShirl: Can you har this?

Moderator2: TOMMY, CAN YOU HEAR ME????

Moderator2: Yep - okay!

JohnShirl: Okay let's try this - more questions?

Moderator2: Many many people would like to slap yr wrists for being an AOL user - you need to hear that.

Moderator2: Now, more questions:

Moderator2: Scott: John, who do think is greatest novelist working today ? (Besides yourself)John, who do think is the greatest novelist working today? (Besides yourself, of course)John, who do think is the greatest novelist working today? (Besides yourself, of course)

JohnShirl: yes I think AOL is the reason I crashed...it doesn't like other servers

Moderator2: Scott stuttered.

JohnShirl: Great novelist...well I like Patrick O'Brian...I don't read all that much fiction - I think Cormac McCarthy is the best I've read...

JohnShirl: For science fiction probably Bruce Sterling

JohnShirl: ....Lucius Shepard and Dan Simmons can write...in the fantasy realm...I am way behind in that area though//

Moderator2: ...<Merlin2>: What episodes of DS9 did you write or collaborate on?

JohnShirl: I only wrote one, "Visionary", a time travel story and I don't like time travel stories...dude was jumping ahead in time a short distance and warning people about stuff coming down minutes ahead...

JohnShirl: I wrote an episode of the new Crow tv show and they bought and paid for it but they aren't going to use it because it's "too much like the character in the movie"//

JohnShirl: So there's tv for you.//

Moderator2: ...<GRAYALIEN> : Mr John Shirley.....surely you can't be serious, and don't call me shirley....ps are you going to do another johnny pneumonic or cyberpunk rpg thriller and do you like shadow run?

JohnShirl: I don't know Shadow Run, what is it? SILICON EMBRACE was pretty cyberpunk...I have one in my head - I have whole novels in my head waiting to be downloaded onto paper and my wife things I'm just spaced out....called Glass Globe...

JohnShirl: my ECLIPSE books will probably be brought back into print but it's just in the negotiation stages...I'm working on various projects for Showtime channel and HBO by the way...//

Moderator2: <Riddley> : what do you think about the current Scream-lead <Riddley> : what do you think about the current Scream-lead horror "renassaince?"

JohnShirl: I think it's good for guys who write dark stuff like me I guess...Scream 2 was a lot like my old story The Rubber Smile which is in Black Butterflies but I forgive them...Talented kid...You know, it'll generate a lot of films until

JohnShirl: a couple of them don't make money and then the producers and studio guys will say that 'horror is finished' or nobody likes it whereas the truth is nobody likes BAD horror and they won't have gone to those films because they sucked...

JohnShirl: If a science fiction movie tanks then it's "science fiction doesn't work" - but actually it was because it was a bad or ill timed film...//

Moderator2: ...<Jim> : John, you mentioned you like to argue politics. How would you describe your views, and how do they tie into your stories?

JohnShirl: I don't know if I like to argue it but I end up doing it...you know, my views vary according to the issue. That is I'm to the left, so called, or right according to which issue it is and according to my conscience.

JohnShirl: People should let their conscience dictate their political stand and not partisan issues or having an ax to grind or whether or not the thing is profitable for them...

JohnShirl: For example I'm in favor of a strong military and reluctantly supported the strikes against the terrorist camps but I also think that the military should be changed in a lot of ways - that our intelligence services have done criminals acts...

JohnShirl: as in supporting death squads...that the military covers up a great deal it shouldn't cover up...that government is mostly run by cronies in corporations for the benefit of the wealthy - that we need national health service of some kind...

JohnShirl: and these ideas are 'to the left' supposedly

JohnShirl: but at the same time I support a strong police and army, I'm patriotic, and I think we do need to reform welfare which is supposedly 'to the left'...

JohnShirl: so I won't be pigeonholed, literarily or politically...//

Moderator2: <Ribbonman>: John, I'm a writer too--with a book coming out next month. Any advice? Also, who're the worse censors, uptight conservatives or PC liberals?

JohnShirl: Why not plug your book coming out Ribbonman, what's the title?

Moderator2: Let me give Ribbonman voice

Moderator2: Hold on a minute:

Moderator2: Go ahead, Ribbonman

Moderator2: You SHOULD be able to type - unless I mispelled yr name..

Moderator2: Anyway he sez: TO RULE IN HELL

Moderator2: And here's another question:

JohnShirl: Censors - I don't know as I've been censored. i have seen more of it on the Right, with books being thrown out of school libraries, than on the left. I like that title...as for advice...

JohnShirl: Don't quit any dayjob you may have no matter how good you are till you have a real best seller or lots of books in print...

JohnShirl: it's hard to make a living from books alone usually.

JohnShirl: And do anything you can to promote your book - like come to a cyberchat room and...heyyyyyy.//

Moderator2: Last question for the evening: <Scott>: John, why is the standard of quality so low in modern horror fiction? What went wrong?

JohnShirl: I don't know, I think it's always low in any genre...it's common denominator...people want whatever formula is comfortable for them...See, I have a secret vice for watching western movies, like John Wayne movies...it's a disease I have...and a wstern for m

JohnShirl: me has to be well crafted *and* adhere to a certain formula...this limits the genre. Same holds true for horror...or science fiction

JohnShirl: And editors will go with whoever is trendy too, and they will sell whatever they can easily package. One thing that happens is that marketing departments often make the choices now.

JohnShirl: Not editors.

JohnShirl: I have had books accepted by editors and turned down by marketing depts at the publisher...

Moderator2: John Shirley has a website, by the way -

Moderator2: and he hangs out there quite often from what I understand.

Moderator2: Its URL:

Moderator2: www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley.html

Moderator2: John, thanks for joining us here tonight.

JohnShirl: Website was put up by fans but I approve of it...has stories and articles and links to my columns and weird ass stuff...

Moderator2: I'm very sorry that all your questions were not able to be answered, people in the audience.

JohnShirl: You betcha thanks for hanging around everyone while I got my not very technical butt in gear

Moderator2: They were GREAT questions - and when John dumps AOL and COMES BACK AS A GUEST AGAIN

Moderator2: I'm sure he'll answer them all.

JohnShirl: Yeah I'll get a new server...au revoir....contact me through my website if you like...auf wedersehen...vaya con dios...

Moderator2: Chat with Ray Harryhausn - September 4 @ 1pm Eastern time

JohnShirl: Stick around for Ray H! He's a god!

Moderator2: Thanks again everyone.

Moderator2: You should all be able to talk now...

Moderator2: Can you??

LadyGhost: when's september 4th?

Riddley: Thanks John!

Merlin2: Yep.

Moderator2: Cool!

Riddley: That's 13 hours from now.

PHOENIX: hey blademaster

mayhem: hwloo?

GRAYALIEN: testing....testing.....testing.......the PRESIDENT HAS RESIGNED......LETS ALL HOPE.......

Moderator2: Good night everybody.